Art Race and Space Symosium Just the Facts Transcript

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Nearly Thuy Thi Nguyen

Thuy Thi Nguyen serves as the seventh president of Foothill College in Los Altos Hills, California, a position she has held since July 2016. Nguyen is the first Vietnamese American college president in the country.

Prior to her arrival at Foothill, Nguyen served as interim full general counsel for the California Community Colleges Chancellor's Office. Equally overseer of equal employment opportunity plans for 72 community college districts and 113 colleges, she led the move to an innovative funding approach that encourages community colleges to assess and strengthen their efforts in equal employment opportunity.

For over xi years, Nguyen was the general counsel for the Peralta Community College District. At different points during her tenure at Peralta, she served in boosted roles as interim vice chancellor for human resources, district-wide strategic planning managing director, and legislative liaison. From January to June 2015, Nguyen took temporary leave from Peralta to serve as interim president and chief executive officer of the Community Higher League of California.

Nguyen earned her BA in philosophy from Yale Academy and her juris doc caste from the Academy of California, Los Angeles School of Law, where she was a member of the inaugural class of the David J. Epstein Public Interest Constabulary and Policy Plan. Nguyen is a Rotarian and a Paul & Daisy Soros Boyfriend.

The Interview

Q: In general, what do y'all feel is the role of higher education in breaking down barriers across race?

Higher pedagogy is the quintessential place for breaking downwards such barriers. There have been enough fights in the courts about the key correct to education—well-nigh whether that, in fact, is a fundamental right. That right has played out in a very significant way in many of the affirmative action cases in higher education.

College education is the place for the conversation effectually civil rights, peculiarly with regards to race. College education is also not simply the place where race issues, race politics, and racial dynamics come up into play, but it also is such a ticket to social mobility. And then the ability to have admission to that ticket of greater social mobility becomes more essential in addressing the racial divides in our land.

Then, of course, college didactics is a place of robust conversations, robust ideas, and research. Students come up to their own cocky-actualization, their own sense of their self in the world, and that sense of self has to come with a sense of understanding of their own racial and cultural identity, that of those effectually them, and the lived experiences of everyone. Empathy comes with that.

So college education becomes function of the place where race issues come to a head, but also is office of the identify where race issues can be resolved and discussed, and the place for that ability to admission the greater world through social mobility that college education can provide. It is quintessential.

I think didactics in full general, whether information technology exist higher education or K–12, is the battleground. As I oftentimes say, inside the context of education, the key ceremonious rights battlefield is the playground.

Q: Given your life experiences and professional preparation, how did you obtain a knowledge base of operations in equity, diversity, inclusion, and social justice in higher education?

Well, my reply has 2 parts. I, in terms of merely my own lived personal experience. I'k a refugee from Vietnam. I was built-in in Vietnam. We fled past boat when I was 3 or four years old. We were at body of water for xx, 25 days. I'm then grateful for what America has washed, fifty-fifty though at the aforementioned time it was very much a key player in that war. I am grateful for America accepting us every bit refugees, particularly in light of the conversation of clearing today, both legal and illegal.

You know, I often have to remind our students that it wasn't until someone recognized me and my family as refugees that we were then legal. We were just fleeing communism. Then that lived experience, in terms of just being an immigrant, and the dynamic of acculturation, coming into a country where not a lot of people around you wait similar you is eye-opening. It has a cultural lens, it has a racial lens.

I was living in the South, in New Orleans, at the time too and growing up there were a lot of experiences that came with that too, racially. Then my family and I moved to Oakland, California, and I started living every bit a minority within a minority customs. That was actually grappling with high poverty rates, with high crime rates, and simply knowing that that was our earth. Seeing all of that and knowing all of that just got me actually passionate around issues of social justice and civil rights.

After law schoolhouse, I came back to the Oakland surface area and did a lot of work effectually desegregation. I was in a police firm representing and helping schoolhouse districts like Stockton Unified and San Jose Unified with their court-ordered desegregation consent decree, supporting, advising, and counseling the schoolhouse district and seeing their equity program.

While in police force school, I likewise served on the court monitoring team for the San Francisco Unified School District. Simply actually beingness neat into how the schools were really the battleground for civil rights bug. I was just really in melody, maybe because I was already looking in that direction around how race plays out in education.

In terms of my professional preparation, it actually started with a lot of the desegregation piece of work and existence a lawyer. Then more recently, I was the acting general counsel for the California Customs Colleges Chancellor's Office, which is our state system regulatory function that regulates all 115 community colleges in this state. I made a commitment to be the acting in that role and be loaned, substantially, from the Peralta Customs College District where I was general counsel to the state arrangement office, because I knew that the legal office oversaw equal employment opportunity (EEO). We had merely received more than $60 million from the governor to hire full-time kinesthesia. There hadn't been that kind of infusion of money to rent new full-time tenure-track faculty in the system for some time. Knowing the racial diverseness gap of full-time kinesthesia in our ranks, I only knew that we could non waste matter this money and needed to apply this opportunity to rent a more than diverse faculty. I made the delivery to serve as the interim general counsel for the legal division and made information technology my highest priority to focus on the EEO piece of work so that people would sympathize the legal requirements around equal employment opportunity, and through that process exist able to help diversify the faculty ranks.

At our sister higher, De Anza College, there was an economic researcher from UC Santa Cruz who studied the bug of poverty within workforce development. In the data he saw how the pupil success functioning equity gap for students of color was actually less when students are being taught past faculty of color. And so he followed that lead, did more number crunching, and in fact, it proves that the gap airtight from well-nigh 20 to 50 percent when students are taught by a faculty of color. Utilizing that research, and knowing the legal requirements, I set out to change the funding formula for the state. We required professional person development and training involved in that legal requirement, to actually infuse the kind of conversation that we need to have in hiring people with that new coin that we were receiving from the state.

One of the things that I feel very fortunate in is having a legal degree, and studying very particularly the function of race and the legal parameters of race—because in California we also accept what is chosen Prop 209, which essentially eliminated affirmative action. Information technology had a ripple result in all public sectors, not but educational activity. Knowing the law immune me to non exist afraid to talk virtually race. What I discovered during the work at the chancellor'southward office is people were fifty-fifty agape to fifty-fifty say the words "racial variety." Like, somehow even the word diversity would violate Prop 209, or to even think about race is a violation of Prop 209. Knowing the police allowed me to be very comfortable operating in that space without any fright of violation of law.

Q: And so considering that experience, your bookish groundwork, and your feel in college education and in police force, what kinds of grooming, formal and informal, would you recommend for faculty who have said, for example, "These problems are not office of my subject field," or "Atoms don't run across race?"

In terms of kinesthesia, I would say it's threefold. It relates to all faculty, no matter what discipline, merely let'southward hone in on the Stalk disciplines. One is the curriculum itself, two is the faculty, and three is the students.

In terms of the curriculum itself, in that location has to be a real understanding that scientific discipline is non then objective that information technology doesn't have biases, and the biases vary in different ways. We can take all the historical-critical race conversations around the biases of science—how scientific discipline has been used to really weed out a adamant certain superiority of race, and gender, for example.

Evidently, the anthropologists, sociologists, and all the other disciplines could make comments on the sciences. Simply I call up it'due south also how the curriculum is presented and how it's structured. One of our faculty at Foothill, a biology faculty member, recognized that when students think of a scientist, they don't think of people of colour. They don't recall of women. Instead, if yous name all the scientists that you've learned from, K–12, and even in college, they're basically White men. So how do students feel like that evolution of science and the scientific method and all of that is something that they run into themselves and their own background reflected in? We have to be very cognizant of that. And so this item kinesthesia fellow member makes a point at the start of class to always introduce a scientist of color, or a female scientist, or an LGBTQ+ scientist. He's received a major grant to piece of work with USF to develop out more of that in the curriculum and [to highlight] the contributions of various scientists in the surface area. That's just one of many examples of curricular didactics and how yous introduce concepts and the world of science to students.

Then in that location is the teacher themselves. And so in the enquiry that I mentioned before at De Anza College, there was a high correlation of students of color not simply doing well if they're in Stem, just if they're taught past a STEM teacher. For instance, if the instructor of color is a chemistry instructor, this student of colour is more than likely to stay in that chemistry class. [Non only] successfully finishing that chemistry form, but likewise majoring in chemical science. The instructors themselves serve as a vehicle for encouragement for students of color to stay in STEM. This is more reason the focus on diverseness in STEM is really, actually critical for faculty diversity in instruction Stalk.

The third is the students themselves. So in STEM, because in that location aren't many students of colour, there is this burden of representation that students of color feel when they are in those classes, where they are such the far few. Even from a schoolhouse that may be very racially diverse—their STEM classes may not be. Claude Steele actually speaks to the stereotype threat when performances are being asked of students in the Stalk surface area. At that place really is that burden of representation that they're not only having to bargain with the tests themselves but likewise the failure and success. If they don't make information technology, they remember about how they are representing their race inside that context. And there is enormous force per unit area with that.

People teaching in Stalk need to exist fully cognizant of how stereotype threat can be even more than accentuated in STEM. And so those are the three folds. In that location is and so much to unpack in terms of really helping Stem kinesthesia sympathize that.

Q: If you were to educate students differently so that they evolve into more critically witting, disinterestedness-minded citizens, how would you exercise it if money were not a factor?

I think nosotros make besides many excuses around money, considering equity can yet be achieved without money. At the aforementioned time, we definitely need money because information technology's such a tall society in many regards. For example, the kind of professional evolution, the kind of time that nosotros need for faculty and students to create space for themselves does require money, but coin is not essential in that. Coin should not be ever an excuse, quite bluntly, non to exercise equity work.

That said, in terms of dreaming big one of the things that I'm doing at Foothill Higher—and information technology's very much equity-driven on my part—is a college-wide initiative, in some ways a rebranding of our college, called Service Leadership. It's this concept of harnessing students' leadership skills, and their leadership voice, through the service of others. Information technology has a noble notion to it, and so it's very big in that fashion. Some would say quite visionary in that style, especially for community higher. Community colleges sometimes are seen besides much every bit the assembly line of education—you go through, you get your degree, you get what you lot need in terms of the paperwork, and so go out and get work or transfer.

But I actually feel that nosotros tin can never miss out, even if they merely stay with united states of america for two years, on the opportunity to come across students as fully human beings with their own self-actualization and their contribution to social club. So to that extent, information technology is chiliad and noble, only it is actually grounded in some strategic thinking from an equity standpoint.

Leadership is another way of seeing agency. For students of color, it is really important for them that they run into themselves as agents in their work, both in and out of their educational journey. To validate that they already have those leadership abilities, and leadership either right now or leadership potential for the future, is really critical for students of color.

The second is it has been shown that students of color in any discipline, and it'southward as well the case for women in STEM, that their academic work is much more meaningful for them and they're more than probable to stay and engage in their academic work if they know immediately how their studies could touch and do good their communities of interest. This notion of "service" is service of whatever community they ascertain equally important to them. Nosotros have done a plethora of things, but one is a culmination of research and service leadership piece of work in our symposium, which has run for ii years now. The terminal one, in that location were over 250 students participating, and they present, either poster board or orally, on their service leadership inquiry projection and how information technology has an effect on and benefits club. It very much has a theme that is focused on students of colour, although it's for everyone. It's this full general belief that every student volition do good from it, in terms of their empathy consciousness, their lodge consciousness, then information technology definitely is more in terms of impact for students of color.

That's what I've been doing in terms of service leadership and it'southward this notion of global citizenship. I only finished my 3rd yr equally president of Foothill College and and then as nosotros deepen the work of service leadership, we demand to also deepen the racial justice component thread of it. For example, right now students are very interested in climate alter, just we also need to deepen that work for them to empathize racial environmental justice problems inside that context. Many of our students are going away through the service leadership projects—one group just came back from Republic of guatemala. Some other i is going to Honduras. Ane is Ireland, Philippines, Malaysia. So they're going to go places that need their assist, and the students are just starting to talk about the racial lens of that, and the bias that comes with that, and how they need come to the work with a sense of consciousness effectually that.

I'm very proud. It's an development of growth, and I'm proud that our college is heading in that direction.

Q: Finally, from your perspective, what are the most firsthand opportunities for college and university presidents around cultivating an inclusive campus where diversity, disinterestedness, and inclusion are woven in the cultural fabric of a successful institution? We're really especially interested in hearing what your experiences have been like from this level of leadership that you take at Foothill Higher.

Nosotros have such a responsibility as a college president, in terms of that cultivation of that inclusive campus. More often than not in our own exercise personally, but also in being strategic and using tactical practices that are unequivocal as to what we're doing. I think it'southward really, really critical.

First, earlier I address how nosotros proactively do that, I call up one give-and-take of caution. And it's from hearing from plenty people who have been doing the equity work, around their concerns during budget cuts. I want to accost [budget cuts] first considering our college president colleagues are mindful of these, but need to be even more mindful. The upkeep cuts are cyclical; they are going to happen. Nosotros have to exist very cognizant of what role we still play in the upkeep. During budget cuts, patently, information technology seems similar it's—"Just make the numbers work," correct? But we accept to call back that the numbers express our values. So many times when it comes to budget cuts, equity programs, disinterestedness initiatives, outreach, learning communities that are equity-focused, professional development for equity, are unremarkably beginning on the chopping block.

Sometimes we just have to make those cuts, in that location is no incertitude near it. But I call back information technology's really important that we recognize that those programs were not but an added enhancement. Some people may meet that as a "plus ane." And then if you cut it, you're just bringing it back to zero. And then when opportunities and coin come in once again, you can bring it back to plus one.

When you lot cut budgets like that, it's more the dollars that you cut, you lot are also making a value statement. Then it doesn't come back to nil. Information technology actually is a negative iii. So when the budget is amend, and yous're trying to work your way back upwards, y'all are so behind, and the cynicism and skepticism on campus past employees who are there more permanently than students is actually a problem.

In my concluding upkeep cut scenario, I actually had a guiding principle that the college will be cognizant and evaluate and assess the racial bear on of whatever cutting. I made information technology very articulate at the very get-go of the process, so that everyone understood, non simply am I cognizant, just I will be keeping rail of it. I recall that's really of import considering we will have good times, nosotros will have bad times—the good times we tin never get back quickly when information technology comes to disinterestedness issues.

Now, that's from a budget standpoint. In terms of proactively creating an inclusive environment as a college president, everybody has to know that you are not only equity-minded, but you lot really know how to push button the equity conversation. You know how to talk information technology, you know how to walk information technology, you lot know how to appoint with it, and yous are very comfortable in it. That takes some skills. Some of us may already take that because we have lived experiences, we take professional experiences prior to coming into our role, and then we're much more comfy with certain terminologies and with certain nuances. For whatever college president who may non be as comfortable with that, they'd better apace go comfortable with that, and accept the correct confidants and advisers effectually them to be comfortable with that considering people are watching, they're observing, and they want to know that you lot are a trustworthy leader when it comes to problems of racial disinterestedness.

The other matter I think is very important, this goes fifty-fifty beyond the conversation of variety, equity, and inclusion, just it is fundamental to the work of cultivating that, and that is always to be student-centered. The conversation, whenever information technology comes back to students and how we are pupil-centered and student-focused, information technology'south amazing how our heed and our orientation work if we come up at information technology from that standpoint. Somehow solutions, ways of talking about things, initiatives, they get clearer. They go clearer around how we back up students of color, when we come at it from a student-focused standpoint.

Information technology'due south easy to say educatee-focused. It's like, "Of course I think of students. Why wouldn't I?" Merely there are differences. At that place are nuances, and you can tell. Being very student-focused, then, has you existence much more than compassionate and solution-oriented around students of colour.

When I came on lath, there was an disinterestedness programme already in identify. And the equity plan included hiring for the director of disinterestedness. I actually elevated that position to a higher level, a dean. And even though a dean usually is not a member of the president's cabinet, I made that position a cabinet position. She sits in our cabinet meeting, she's advising me, making it key to the work, and making it fundamental to my own work. That's just one of many examples where I e'er elevate whenever an opportunity present itself. Just I elevate in a very deep and meaningful manner. I don't only elevate for the sake of elevating it, and I can requite you my reasoning. My statement, my reasoning, the logic behind why that is the example. And that's actually important and [also] to make it very public because many CEOs may be already equity-minded, just when yous don't brand gestures that are very public and unequivocal for everyone to encounter, it's very hard to merely say that y'all're equity-minded, right?

When it comes to effect of race, as much every bit I believe I may have a lot of preparation for this piece of work and I definitely have a lot of motivation for this work, it is also very humbling. And my lived experience is only one lived experience in the whole spectrum of racial lived experiences. So it is very humbling, and I often find myself receding a little bit and creating that space for people so that they tin can evidence up and they could bring forth their own lived experience, bring forth their own expertise into this space and assist influence the space. Some college presidents would call that letting things happen organically.

I'm constantly doing a check—it's almost like talking to myself around that balance of humility and courage. I think it's a healthy balance, frankly, because I don't want to exist a demagogue because that doesn't assist. Still at the same time, I need to bring my expertise and bring forth everything that I tin can bring to the table. Be my own consultant in a way. Be my own confidant. Be the college's facilitator in that.

So I say to all CEOs who may exist grappling in the similar fashion that I'one thousand grappling, and that is when information technology comes to equity, I had to fifty-fifty telephone call my mentor and talk through this with her. And she says when it comes to equity, practise not be humble about it. That'south just a personal evolution as a college president in terms of inbound into that place. That balance of racial humility, and at the same time racial courage.

Q: Is there anything else that you'd like to add?

[With some institutions] their equity plans are more about their expenditure plans. They're basically, "How are you going to spend your equity money?" That'south not how you should approach disinterestedness work. It'due south not an expenditure plan. It'south a vision. Information technology'due south a call of activeness. It'southward how you lot programme to spend any of your money. It doesn't matter whether it'due south equity money. It's how you program to coordinate your college in such a mode to cultivate that diverseness, equity, and inclusion, and therefore create an surround that is equitable for your students. Your students feel that when students of color in particular come up on your campus, they need to feel that they own the campus. The campus is theirs. It's non for them, it is theirs.

When I see students of color walk on our campus and they are walking as though they own it, that'south how I know we have succeeded. Our plan should not be about a plan of expenditure, and I really desire to underscore that. That'due south why at our college I've said now that I'm in my role, we're doing disinterestedness program 2.0. I think it'due south very critical to underscore that equity work is not merely about how they spend the money.

The 2d thing is I am putting in identify a lingo, a concept. I really believe that the solution is with us already. At Foothill College, we have so many amazing people at our college who are teaching social justice bug, who are pedagogy race issues in then many subject areas, and yet they are non actually quintessential in our establishment's own equity work. It's but like, "What? Your ain college is in need of your expertise!" So I am creating an surround where I'1000 trying every bit best every bit I can to bring along the faculty'due south disciplinary expertise to infuse and guide the college's disinterestedness work, and how we see equity, and how we can shut the gap.

Nosotros have faculty members didactics stereotype threat, implicit bias, and the definition of race. Yet they are non every bit involved as I'd like them to be in our own higher's social justice equity piece of work. And so I accept reframed the decision and said that our college is that larger classroom, and all the people at our college are in that classroom and nosotros're going to bring all of our disciplinary expertise, our lived experience to the forefront in that work.

So I'yard creating that narrative, but I'm besides doing something to pull that in. Then when people become to professional development, I have a series called Th Thoughts where they come up back and they talk well-nigh their work. And I'grand starting a journal, an academic journal, where faculty who are doing this work of disinterestedness will actually go published on our campus. I'k hoping to share it with graduate schools of didactics if they're interested in that side of the practicum for studying equity. I'one thousand actually trying to encourage faculty, proverb, "Your own disciplinary expertise is disquisitional and had you not been at Foothill, nosotros may have even hired yous equally a consultant to help consult our college." That's the framework that I'yard creating for our college.

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Source: https://www.equityinhighered.org/resources/ideas-and-insights/lets-talk-about-race-an-interview-with-thuy-thi-nguyen/

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